Curse

Gun Pierson · Sep 11, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

One of the main advertising points of Factions is that it is supposedly a stand-alone game. This, at least in theory, means that it should provide as many hours of gameplay as Prophecies has.

Wrong, it simply is a stand-alone game. You don't need Prophecies to play it.

In computer games, a stand-alone game is one that can be played without requiring another game to provide most of its operating code (as opposed to an expansion pack, which adds to a previous game).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-alone

jjiinx13 · Sep 11, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Hey Shyft, how ya doin?

First let me say I LOVE both Prophecies and Factions!!!

In response to the OP and comments since then.

I have completed both Prophecies (with 10+chars) and Factions (with 5 chars). I have Grandmaster cartographer and Protector of Tyria On 1 char from Prohpecies and working on those titles for Factions on the same char. I have Grandmaster and Protector of Cantha on 1 Cantha born who is now working on the same for Prophecies. I have a total of 8 chars, 1 of each profession at various stages of completion of both Prophecies and Factions. I have 2 chars with Phoenix for pet and 1 with a UW Spider. So I am not new to either chapter.

Factions as long as Prophecies: Mission and story wise- No. If you just do the primary quests and missions it can be completed rather quickly. Quest wise- yes (but see below).

Rushed: Missions are timed and its rush through or get lowest reward (Protector title- Must have fast time for Master reward). I prefer Prophecies method, I hate being rushed. Mission changes: Cooperative Missions- I like the idea of the Cooperative missions where a group from this side and a group from that side meet at point X and complete the mission together. I just hate how hard it is to get thru them with a decent time for master reward. Very difficult to complete with henchies ( I’ve done most of both games with henchies) and usually hard to get a human team (not many ppl in the towns). Difficulties with henchies: Vizunah- If one or both teams is comprised of all or partial henchies then as the foreign team approaches the local team the henchies will run to whoever the human is leaving Togo and/or Mhenlo vulnerable. Anet could have programed the AI a little better for these coop missions. Again, I hate the timer. Competitive Missions- Im not into PvP much but I understand a lot are. I don’t mind the AB set-up or the Competitive missions. I have done both. I just prefer not to PvP so I don’t do them much. They are not necessary for game advancement or completion. But the area are needed for mapping for those attempting to attain the cartographer titles. So how about a quest or something to allow access to the area without having to do PvP aspect of the mission. Challenge Missions- Again not needed for story or game completion but the areas are needed for map completion. Like the main story missions they are timed. Again how about way to access the areas as exploreable areas for mapping purposes.

Quests to open mission towns I don’t mind so much. I always hated the idea of runners anyway. All of my Prophecies chars completed the game in full .. all skills quests and missions and most optional quests, on 3 or 4 even completed the titan quests.

Grind: OK, Yes there are numerous quests for xp, gold and in most cases skill points. But these quests in and of themselves are a grind (go here talk to X, go back to here and talk to X, now go there and do X). All this while going back and forth from 1 zone to the next and have to repeatedly cover the same ground and kill the same mobs over again (and some really have nothing to do with the actual story). That is grind IMO. I do love the questing aspect of both Prophecies and Factions but, the constant back and forth over and over again irritates and bores me. Also one of my biggest dislikes as for the quests difference between Factions and Prophecies is the lack of skills quests. Yeah we get skill points to buy skills but I for one am not a millionaire in game (or out lol). So I cant afford to by enough skills to be effective in most cases. For example My Monk started in Cantha- I wanted to be able to change between heal, prot or smite but couldnt get enough skills to have the variety to do that. What to do? Does Anet want us to buy ebay gold?? So I deleted the char and started over in Prophecies again. Also (not really quest related) with the titles that they introduced, I understand why the PvP titles are account based not char based. Most hard-core PvPers have a char slot just for PvP so they can create whatever build is needed at the time. But IMO I think the skill hunter title should also be account based. Prior to Factions release I had capped all Elites available in Prophecies. But silly me I didn’t cap them all on the same char. Didn’t have the skill points to without some heavy high-level grinding to build up the points. Not to mention the cost to do that on all chars. Again, What to do? Does Anet want us to buy ebay gold??

Map size- to me taking the 2 side by side isnt really valid- Factions multi-tiered layout. I dont mind the map area being compressed due to the multi-tiered layout.

Henchmen: I do like the new henchie set-up where the farther along you go the more choices you have in henchie selection.

Scenery, while maybe not as pretty and colorful as most of Tyrias still has much to offer. I have found great scenes in all the zones( mission and exploreable) that I have found to be extremely captivating. Love the scenery of both chapters.

I was gonna say more but I think I’ve babbled on long enough.

JiggyFly · Sep 11, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Personally I don't think you can even really classify Guild Wars as an RPG. I mean they're pumping out an expansion per 6 monthes, and people are getting bored, most MMORPGs go on for years between expansions and even playing 6+ hours a day you haven't completed everything.

With that in mind, Guild Wars is still exactly as I expect it to be. Fun-Fast paced gaming, where you can easily pick-up where you left off, or switch gears to do something else very easily, widely because of map travel and the ease with which you can switch your characters build.

I don't try to make Guild Wars something it isn't, I don't try to force 5,000+ hours out of it just because I played FFXI and that's how long it took me to complete it. You just can't do that, and still have fun.

And in my experiences with people complaining, before you even get halfway down the list of what you can possibly do (AB, FOW, etc..) you start to get answers from the person like "But I hate doing that" or "*blank* isn't fun for me", so it's really not that the gameplay isn't there so much as the gameplay isn't there when people don't want to do certain things. Which brings me back to my point, you can't make a game something it isn't.

Azrael1309 · Sep 11, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

I love Factions and Prophecies. Now everyone shut up and go have a beer. Seriously. This has been run into the ground too much. If you love the game, great. If not, well, that's the risk you take when you buy anything.

Opeth11 · Sep 11, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

I don't try to make Guild Wars something it isn't, I don't try to force 5,000+ hours out of it just because I played FFXI and that's how long it took me to complete it.

Wow, not FFXI sounds like a god for keeping a player's interest o.o

xiao1985 · Sep 11, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

i don't like the middle of faction, simply because i hate the the cramped city ( yeh i know, the hypocricy, i myself am from one)...

and for that reason alone, i don't like faction compared to GW, where the scenery and change of scenery was the most splendid i've seen....

that being said, shining jea and place outside mattu keep is rather pretty.... harvest temple also has some melacholy and confusion about it, which i rather pretty....

TheLordOfBlah · Sep 11, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

That was the original post. Did you read anything beyond it?

No, I didnt feel like reading 250+ posts. Sorry.

art of war · Sep 11, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

funny thing is that not all allainces are obssed with faction farming/abing. My allaince now has steered clear from that and is now doing hoh/gvgs. My guild used to ab/ff all the time but during summer allaince leader exhausted us and it disgusts me now. An saying allainces just worry about farming faction an abing is just a little over exaggerated,since allainces can be more benfical then just ff/abing just to get a underpiced merchant for owning a town or owning capital for elite mission.

GloryFox · Sep 11, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

posted by art of war
My guild used to ab/ff all the time but during summer allaince leader exhausted us and it disgusts me now.

One of the benefits of this happening was the number of people who left those alliances and are now focused on the community aspect of GW not feeding bad ego’s. Bad Guilds were recognized for what they were and the People HERO's rose up to set the standard of play. Overall Factions was a good thing that happened to GW and the community. It showed both design flaws and design success. It also set standards for what community expects from the developers it introduced us to new possibilities and concepts for future GW games. I can now look forward to Nightfall knowing the developers took the community seriously.

Malice Black · Sep 11, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Meh..I didnt like Factions just because I didnt...no rant but it just didnt sit right with me.

Christoffer · Sep 12, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I think Factions isn't as long as Prophecies.. but soo many people forget that there are quests that they can do.. that makes the game longer. While everyone else is tackling the huge ass story quests.. most people miss out on the small little quests.. heck, there is a "viagra" quest in Factions!

Arcador · Sep 12, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

(off topic - http://maxwell.ucsc.edu/~stephanie/g...0of%20evil.jpg )

shadowfell · Sep 12, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I've actually been playing world of warcraft, the last few days *grin*, and since I am not playing gw atm, I have been able to figure out from an objective pov, why factions turned me against gw.

1. The players. Rudeness, elitism, ignorance, scammers...I'm sure these people exist in both places, but hopefully I won't run into the degree that I am accustomed to seeing in GW.

2. Lack of skills, professions, aside from "you're a necro, making some bone things and make this stuff die" In WoW, I can learn to enchant things, go fishing.. it's kind of fun. Giving 5 wood and 5 dust to a crafter, just wouldn't suffice to replace the fun I have creating things in WoW.

3. Replayability. There is so much stuff to do, it just doesn't really seem like I will ever run out of things to do in WoW. All you can do in GW is pvp, the same quest on a different character, you have already done on another.. Same mission..farm, pvp. Small continents, smaller expansion continents with less content (i.e cantha) It's like running into a brick wall and having no where to go from there. According to people, the end game in GW, is pvp. Well.. That is boring, to me.

People claim that the end game also includes alliance battles, aspenwood and jade quarry. Those are repetative. Why would I want to replay the same mission, the same purpose over and over and over and over again day in and day out, unless I was farming faction for some town holding alliance. Boring.

"Repeatable Quests" Again, if this is end-game, fire the development team please.

4. No hidden costs. With WoW, you know where you stand. I know I will be spending 12.99 or so a month. With GW, more and more things are popping up with a price tag.

5. While it takes some getting used to, it is nice to see an economy that isn't bloated like GW. Getting a single gold is kind of a feat in WoW, and 5 gold, goes a really long way. My character is doing pretty well on less than a gold at a time, in all truth.

A. Auction House. This is awesome.. I can't even express how much I dig and would miss this. GW should be ashamed they do not have this.

B. Extended Storage. The lack of this in GW is inexcusable as well. I just don't understand how they have been unable to implement this over the last 1+ year.

6. Mounts. Need I say more.

Just a few things I have noticed..

makosi · Sep 12, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

The reason I hate Factions is because of the way they didn't beta test with henchmen. I find it near impossible to complete a mission with them because their attributes are so low, they aren't programmed to kite, the AoE nerf didn't affect them, Cynn uses Fire Storm and the healer henchmen leave people to die when they have perfectly good opportunities. When the bosses do double damage and hench attributes are so low, the henchmen cant heal themselves enough to deal with it. Ok, we all know anet want teamwork but I'd rather they left the henchmen out than subject us to this half-assed excuse for AI.

Another thing, why the major enchantment hate? yes, we farmed prophecies to death using enchantments but the sheer number of enchantment removal skills have made enchantments underpowered.

Lastly, so many Ritualist skills are so completely thoughtless such as 'Pain'. A summoed spirit which throws balls and foes? Time must have been tight in the drawing room.

Braggi · Sep 13, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

@shadowfell:
enjoy your WoW honeymoon while it lasts

1. players are the same anywhere. Wait for the next login server crash and you get a nice survey of a**hats on the surviving servers. There are scams as well, and loot distribution is the most common source of bad blood.
2. crafting is ridiculous, often loosing you money while training. In the end you'll rarely craft anything unless you're the guild crafter. Notice that to get good receips you must farm mobs or reputation. Alchemie is a rare exception as its products are consumed, so demand never decreases.
3. Leveling up is the best part. Still it may often take far longer to form groups than in GW. Unless you're in PvP endgame is purely farming - equipment and reputation (and PvP honour). Unless you're in a big guild you won't ever see the endgame dungeons. Repeatable quests and reputation farming in Factions were copied from WoW btw...
4. costs - well, I spend nothing than the box cost on GW. Server transfer is not free. For 12.99 per month I would have a big budget for slots and the like. Also notice that many older WoW servers are really laggy compared with the free GW alternative.
5. Economy - wait till your 60. Of course in the beginnning buying skills removes gold. Later on when you know what to do and where to farm, gold is no issue. A gold in WoW is more like a plat in GW anyway.
A Auction house or more broker types would be wellcome in GW. On the other hand you can only sell a fraction of dropped items in the WoW AH.
B Buying more space ingame would be wellcome; Factions material storage was a good first step. But then WoW has way more equipment slots and uses storage as another money sink.
6 mounts - so what? you can just sit on them and travel slighly less slow... no fighting, no crossing water... another money sink like GWs luxury armor, a sink which needs you to walk where in GW you just zone...

Roleplay isn't really supported in WoW, but you can show off your achievements better. Notice the nets over trenches in the dwarfen Capital are there for a reason - the ego show kills performance...

On topic:
I dropped Factions fast but resumed playing lately. Some things still feel rushed or frustrating (like the mentioned quests over the same ground over and over), navigation sucks big time, and I dislike being forced to unlock every other outpost. Lag is still there but improved noticably for me. Boss double damage is a cheap fix and still sucks.

As I accepted its limitations and overlooked some faults, Factions actually became fun as an alternative to Prophecies. Still I wouldn't accept another Factions for part 3.

trankle · Sep 13, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Lastly, so many Ritualist skills are so completely thoughtless such as 'Pain'. A summoed spirit which throws balls and foes? Time must have been tight in the drawing room.

Oh, I know you're not talking smack about Pain! When I play an offensive Rit in PvE, I wouldn't think of going wihout Pain. Some details you forgot:

3 second cast (as opposed to 5 for most offensive spirits).

5e cost (as opposed to 10, 15, or 25 for most of the others), which makes it the only turret spirit that nets me energy with Boon of Creation.

Long duration. Not as big a deal if you use Rit Lord, but if you use, say, Wanderlust, you need to be very careful when and where you lay your spirits. Pain and Bloodsong have long enough durations that they can be laid down before combat, and in front. This gives the Rit a buffer, strategically, for getting the most out of his other, more expensive, shorter duration specialty spirits.

So...Pain, a quicker casting, energy-gaining damage spirit whose lifespan is longer than its recharge, which also does 21 armor ignoring damage every 2 seconds (almost double that under Painful Bond)? Yes, please.

Ninna · Sep 13, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

Personally I don't think you can even really classify Guild Wars as an RPG. I mean they're pumping out an expansion per 6 monthes, and people are getting bored, most MMORPGs go on for years between expansions and even playing 6+ hours a day you haven't completed everything

how about Everquest?
http://everquest.station.sony.com/

a mmorpg thats been around for 7 years and already has 12 expansions

less than a year per expansion

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 13, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Oh, I know you're not talking smack about Pain! When I play an offensive Rit in PvE, I wouldn't think of going wihout Pain. Some details you forgot:

3 second cast (as opposed to 5 for most offensive spirits).

5e cost (as opposed to 10, 15, or 25 for most of the others), which makes it the only turret spirit that nets me energy with Boon of Creation.

Long duration. Not as big a deal if you use Rit Lord, but if you use, say, Wanderlust, you need to be very careful when and where you lay your spirits. Pain and Bloodsong have long enough durations that they can be laid down before combat, and in front. This gives the Rit a buffer, strategically, for getting the most out of his other, more expensive, shorter duration specialty spirits.

So...Pain, a quicker casting, energy-gaining damage spirit whose lifespan is longer than its recharge, which also does 21 armor ignoring damage every 2 seconds (almost double that under Painful Bond)? Yes, please.

His point is not function but form. I guess he expects something with a name like "Pain" to be more of a hex with devastating "physical" effects (maybe Cripple? maybe Deep Wound?) rather than a summoned, immobile spirit that lobs ranged attacks at things. Not really painful when you can just sidestep or get out of range. Then again, a hex like that would be more appropriate for a Mesmer, which is probably why "Accumulated Pain" and "Phantom Pain" do what they do.

In short, he's complaining about the naming of certain Factions skills that he feels don't really match what the skill does.

Count Feanor · Sep 13, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

A little off-topic, but here's a little trivia fact for all commenting on the OP's title. The Bible doesn't say that Money is the root of ALL evil. It does say that the "love of money" is the root of "all kinds of" evil. Probably because the KJV was translated from the Latin and not the original language (Koine Greek) that there is confusion. Carry on.

bart · Sep 13, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I've actually been playing world of warcraft, the last few days *grin*, and since I am not playing gw atm, I have been able to figure out from an objective pov, why factions turned me against gw.

1. The players. Rudeness, elitism, ignorance, scammers...I'm sure these people exist in both places, but hopefully I won't run into the degree that I am accustomed to seeing in GW.

2. Lack of skills, professions, aside from "you're a necro, making some bone things and make this stuff die" In WoW, I can learn to enchant things, go fishing.. it's kind of fun. Giving 5 wood and 5 dust to a crafter, just wouldn't suffice to replace the fun I have creating things in WoW.

3. Replayability. There is so much stuff to do, it just doesn't really seem like I will ever run out of things to do in WoW. All you can do in GW is pvp, the same quest on a different character, you have already done on another.. Same mission..farm, pvp. Small continents, smaller expansion continents with less content (i.e cantha) It's like running into a brick wall and having no where to go from there. According to people, the end game in GW, is pvp. Well.. That is boring, to me.

People claim that the end game also includes alliance battles, aspenwood and jade quarry. Those are repetative. Why would I want to replay the same mission, the same purpose over and over and over and over again day in and day out, unless I was farming faction for some town holding alliance. Boring.

"Repeatable Quests" Again, if this is end-game, fire the development team please.

4. No hidden costs. With WoW, you know where you stand. I know I will be spending 12.99 or so a month. With GW, more and more things are popping up with a price tag.

5. While it takes some getting used to, it is nice to see an economy that isn't bloated like GW. Getting a single gold is kind of a feat in WoW, and 5 gold, goes a really long way. My character is doing pretty well on less than a gold at a time, in all truth.

A. Auction House. This is awesome.. I can't even express how much I dig and would miss this. GW should be ashamed they do not have this.

B. Extended Storage. The lack of this in GW is inexcusable as well. I just don't understand how they have been unable to implement this over the last 1+ year.

6. Mounts. Need I say more.

Just a few things I have noticed..

haha Welcome to the club! I agree with everything u said mate but i think point 6 should be point 1!